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| codenoise |
 Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:23 am |
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Location: Tampa, FL
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by the end of this thread, with your help, i hope to have unraveled the mysteries of that elusive tuning. to be specific, i'll be trying to figure out avey's feels tuning. the main sources to help out with this will be the planet claire sessions videos and the old market hove footage. ok, enough blabbing, let's get started.
the tuning is some form of open E. this is 99% certain. but upon viewing the planet claire session and seeing avey's guitar fingerings, i have decided that it is not a normal open E tuning. my offering to the list of possible tunings is E E B G# B E. basically the second and third string is swapped to get a "symmetrical" tuning plus a low E drone at the bottom.
going to the video of purple bottle from planet claire, the first chord seems to be 0 4 5 3 5 0. it sounds pretty close to perfect and is what i consider the "avey chord" as it seems to be his form of the barre chord. for finger placement use middle, ring, index, pinky. anyways the second chord, 0 2 0 1 2 0, seems off in this tuning. this is followed by 2 2 2 2 2 2 which sounds correct. then finally 0 2 3 1 3 0, which also sounds correct. everything except for the second chord confirms the E E B G# B E tuning.
more proof of E E B G# B E being close to correct but flawed can be found in the video for flesh canoe, which gives us a better view of the chord shapes and placings. the first chord seems to be 5 5 5 5 5 5 and sounds fine in the tuning. the following chord, 5 6 5 5 7 5, is completely off in this tuning. when i move the 6 up to the fourth string (5 5 5 6 7 5) sounds a lot closer but doesn't look accurate to the video. the final chord in the main section is just all the strings open, or 0 0 0 0 0 0.
hopefully with more study or material to work with i'll be able to figure out the correct tuning and start working on note accurate transcriptions to the entire feels album. discuss....and please keep the use of the word 'obsession' to a minimum.  |
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| burningmonk |
| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:47 pm |
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it's E G# E G# B E
the fingerings for the verse are 087890, 032340, 222222, 065670
you use the same chord shape and just move it to different frets,
except for the third chord, obviously
i'll try and post the chords for the other parts later
i'm at work and don't have a guitar with me. |
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| codenoise |
| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:25 pm |
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Location: Tampa, FL
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burningmonk wrote: it's E G# E G# B E
the fingerings for the verse are 087890, 032340, 222222, 065670
you use the same chord shape and just move it to different frets,
except for the third chord, obviously
i'll try and post the chords for the other parts later
i'm at work and don't have a guitar with me.
whoa! i guess the case is closed. did i miss a previous post about this or are you just now revealing it? either way, thanks! |
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| burningmonk |
| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:34 pm |
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no you didn't miss any posts
i've been meaning to tab these out for a while
i just haven't done it yet  |
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| kmhyde |
| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:14 am |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| This is great- thanks for doing this, both of you. I've been wondering about the tunings for a while, but don't have either the time or skill to decipher them on my own. |
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| burningmonk |
| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:06 pm |
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don't worry
i have a few more tricks up my sleeve
which should be forthcoming
in the next few days
BWA! |
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| Fodder |
| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:10 pm |
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burningmonk wrote: don't worry
i have a few more tricks up my sleeve
which should be forthcoming
in the next few days
BWA!
Anything yet? |
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| the grizzly prospector |
| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:01 am |
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Location: frmgtn, ut.
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| since you have it figured are you going to post the tabs for the planet claire sessions? that would be wonderful. |
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| Mr. Mason |
| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:46 pm |
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Location: houston TX
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do they use that tuning for the whole album?  |
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| Fodder |
| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:43 am |
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| heylight32 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:57 pm |
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| i always thought that a.c. used alot of open d tuning dadf#ad, just messing around with i ive been able to crack a couple tongs |
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| codenoise |
| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:41 am |
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Location: Tampa, FL
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| bump for a request of flesh canoe from planet claire. |
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| Fodder |
| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:14 pm |
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burningmonk wrote: it's E G# E G# B E
the fingerings for the verse are 087890, 032340, 222222, 065670
you use the same chord shape and just move it to different frets,
except for the third chord, obviously
i'll try and post the chords for the other parts later
i'm at work and don't have a guitar with me.
Did you figure out the other parts, by any chance?
I can't seem to figure it out. |
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| codenoise |
| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:55 am |
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Location: Tampa, FL
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Fodder wrote: burningmonk wrote: it's E G# E G# B E
the fingerings for the verse are 087890, 032340, 222222, 065670
you use the same chord shape and just move it to different frets,
except for the third chord, obviously
i'll try and post the chords for the other parts later
i'm at work and don't have a guitar with me.
Did you figure out the other parts, by any chance?
I can't seem to figure it out.
the outro is 789000 to 777777 if i remember correctly. there is a chord in the bridge that i still can't figure out still. |
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| veyesor |
| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:54 am |
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if i may...i usually stay out of these discussions and try and avoid the posts since i feel this is a private space for you guys, but i saw it as the lead topic so i checked it out because i would be amazed if anyone truly cracked it. you all seem to know more about music theory than us since we don't know notes or anything, so maybe you've come as close as you can, we wouldn't know because we don't know what an open D or open E is. but if you do find you have little differences, don't stress because you'll never be exactly right. even we couldn't without a recording. all the songs on feels are tuned to our friends piano which was out of tune to begin with. dave and i made loops from recordings of him playing her piano and we used those loops in the early songwriting process for feels. so since those loops are premade and can't be tuned, the guitars have to be tuned to the loops. it's not out of tune in any tradional whole step/half step kind of way...we're talking microtonally out of tune after years of not being professionally tuned and subtle natural detuning. kind of like if you played guitar in standard tuning for years but never once re-tuned it to make sure it was right. it would have it's own unique out-of-tune tuning based on what strings you played most often, how hard you played it, the temperature in the room, the humidity, etc...when we went into the studio it ruled over everything we did. even doctess's live piano playing required us bringing in a professional piano tuner, playing him a minidisc recording of our friend's out of tune piano, and having him try to de-tune the studio's piano in exactly the same way our friend's was. without those recordings or the loops dave and i made, you wouldn't be able to get it exact unless you tune to the album while it's playing, and even then, you'd have to know which loop in the album we use to tune, which one chord it is, and because of the way we mixed the loop in, it is almost impossible to separate from dave's guitar. i'll never forget when the tuner finished (we had to wait to start recording until he finished) and he stood up from the bench and went "there you go, the piano's perfectly out of tune." before every show we play dave and josh have to go find a quiet place and listen to the loops in headphones to make sure their guitars are in the right slightly out of tune tuning.
so anyway, i always find the tuning discussions kind of amusing. not because i think you guys are wasting your time, but because i'm impressed you find a way to get so close. we've talked about this piano business in lots of magazine interviews so i don't feel bad about giving away a secret. i'm surprised no one has posted any of our quotes about the issue. and besides, without the minidiscs, which are in a case next to me underneath my sleeping cat, no one will ever know the loops we tune too. but it sounds like some of you are natural golden tunas with gifted ears and you've figured out some method to the weirdness. |
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| veyesor |
| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:25 am |
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| in addition to my last post...i have no idea how the tuning for planet claire happened because that was while dave was in france and i was back here in DC with the minidiscs of the loops in my house. maybe he did it from the album and the station's piano was out of tune, maybe he just tuned to that piano, i don't know. i never thought about it before just now. but if you're tuning from those sessions, it won't be exact to the record. |
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| Minotaur |
| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:11 am |
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Location: Austin, Texas
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| I know this is probably never going to happen but I wish you could upload some of those piano loops. I am not the best at tuning by ear but I would just like to hear them. I don't know of any other band that uses piano loops to tune their guitars. I thought you guys knew more about music theory, but I guess I am just used to thinking notes and chords when I'm playing music. But have you guys ever used standard tuning (eadgbe) with guitars in your songs? But I am not suggesting there's anything wrong with using microtonal tunings. |
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| veyesor |
| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:30 am |
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yeah, uploading them probably won't happen. i wouldn't know how to upload something even if i wanted to. not very computer literate.
i don't remember dave or noah writing a song in standard tuning since high schoolm which was almost 10 years ago. certainly no AC songs are in standard tuning.
just to be clear... we didn't do the microtonal out of tune thing on purpose to be intentionally difficult or challenging or avant garde or anything. we made the loops and sometime later we were like, "when was the last time she had her piano tuned? because these may slightly out of tune" and the answer turned out to be quite a long time at which point we were like "ummmmmm, ok, i guess we we're in it for the long haul. we'll tune to these loops for live shows and figure out the studio shit when we're there." turned out to be a happy accident if you ask me because i bet no other record in hostory is in the exact same tuning as feels. |
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| NathanTaylor |
| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:04 pm |
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| this subject just reminds me of Sonic Youth and how most of that material is impossible to reproduce. Here's a legitimate question. Are any Campfire Songs in the same tuning as any Feels songs? |
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| AC-slayder |
| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:58 am |
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burningmonk wrote: it's E G# E G# B E
the fingerings for the verse are 087890, 032340, 222222, 065670
you use the same chord shape and just move it to different frets,
except for the third chord, obviously
i'll try and post the chords for the other parts later
i'm at work and don't have a guitar with me.
hey just spent the last hour doin this so your tabs are awesome..ok on the can i tell yah parts its like this030024 slide up this one could be 056540 or some thing less like 056040 back to the first cord and the ending is just i think 787777 to 232222 but he doesnt go to 2nd po so i have no clue what he plays to get the sound he does right there..just another thing on the first cord 065670 .. i think is 065070 it sounds about the same a little bit different it gives it more of that open sounding to it peace i still cant get the rythum change down at the end.. and i think my roomates not liking the screamin WOOOOOOO!!! |
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| Fodder |
| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:13 am |
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Does anybody know how to play Grass in this tuning?
(E G# E G# B E tuning) |
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| Fodder |
| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:22 am |
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I got greedy.
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